Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

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Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  eJacob on Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:57 pm

In an attempt to get more discussion going I am going to post a list with brief descriptions to see what you might do to counter/fight back against it. This is both to learn what each army is capable of doing against me(of course) but also to inform you guys of what Menoth is capable of.

So this first list is one I am planning to bring to the tourney this Sat, the 24th.

Harbinger of Menoth +5
Crusaderx2 12
Dervishx2 8
Heirophant 2

Temple Flameguard L+9 6
UA 2
Choir L+3 2

Allegiant of the Order of the Fistx2 4
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance 3
Vassal Mechanik 1

I'm trying some stuff I have yet to try with Harby in this list. Crusaders are reliable beatsticks that when added to the Choir can threaten anything in the game, so I took 2. The Dervishes are a new addition to a Harby list for me and with Sidestep and no shortage of Focus I feel they can both threaten a caster along with supporting the Crusaders will be something the enemy will have to deal with.

Though the Heirophant is not necessary on a Focus standpoint (being that it can reduce the cost of a spell by 1), it also has a healing ability which can help with the Harbinger's Martydom ability which I want to try to use a bit more effectively.

The Temple Flameguard are a cheap all around unit. Many a time have they pulled through for me, whether it be holding an objective or tieing up some models because they are seemingly impossible to kill; or charging in and Combining melee to do those final points of damage to a Jack/Beast. With Set defense stacked with other bonuses (Rhupert, Defenders Ward ((albeit not on Harby's spell card)), Iron Zeal, Shield Wall), they can be quite the thorn in the enemies side. Not to mention Reach, and with the UA Terror and Fire Continuous on all their weapons! I <3 TFG!

Choir of course is almost an auto-include in just about all Menoth lists because of their incredible Hymms. Being that they will generally be in the back, along with Harbinger's Martydom ability I plan on keeping these guys alive as long as possible.

One of my favorite things about Menoth is their great support units/solos, but as much as I love them I am trying to over use them and unbalancing my army. That said, I am trying out some of my combat solos in their stead. Any chance I can threaten an important solo or their Caster it means the enemy is reacting to me and not vice versa. Nicia is a nasty solo capable of putting some hurt on even medium based infantry. Stealth and Acrobatics ensures that her 2 Weapon Master Reach attacks(with quick work) reach the intended target, whilst her high Def and Sprint will in theory keep her alive and away from anyone capable of hitting her 16 Def. The Allegiants are a force to be reckoned with in melee also and added to the threat of Nicia create a strike force that will definitely catch the enemy's eye. I must be careful however for they do not have Stealth and I would hate for someone to accidently hit Nicia while shooting at and allegiant.

Though the Mechanik is more of a spot filler being that I don't have much options when I get down to the last bit of the list and have a single point left. I figure it a better option than the Wracks being that I have a heirophant along with an astounding 10 Focus already. The mechanik can also come into play for that needed repair to bring up an Inferno Mace for that game winning charge. Again, martyrdom will hopefully keep this guy alive until the time comes that his services are required. Should he fail, only one thing could save his soul. A wrack.

Pretty simple list and not too many synergies but I feel that it could preform fairly strongly and even have a possibility at assassination runs which I always seemed to have problems with, while running Harby. She definitely isn't an offensive caster and is difficult to keep alive being that she is Large Based but there are few that can run so many jacks effectively.

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  Swampgater on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Off the top of my head both Maelok and Barnbas have solid potential agianst that list.

Baranbas running two Spitters and some posses. Use water to slow down the jacks and troops. Feat, charge the posse into the troops, trigger warpath on both turtles. Gives both turtles a total of 7 inches of movement on top of their 12 inch guns with all your large bases on their butts. Hopefully shes not camping 10 focus, but with all those jacks its unlikely.

Maelok does what he does. Slams both posses into the frontline. Revives two posse members into the back of the army, feats and charge revived posse toward the harbinger.

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  Legion of Hufferblight on Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Here is my answer to your original post Rolling Eyes
Seriously though, Ive have played you with the Harbinger a couple of times and the new additions you put in make it a bit scarier. The Temple Flame Guard for one will be a time saver compared to the Exemplars you have used. Not much of ranged, but continuous fire with reach is pretty good. Nicia and the two kung fu fighters will be a major pain too, in several different ways. The biggest one that I dont think you have thought of is the time your opponent will waste thinking of a way to get rid of them. This helps even more when he thinks he has an answer to them. That is wasting both time AND resources that arent attacking the rest of your army. Two things that are very valuable in the tourney.
The two dirvishes and two crusaders make one hell of a one two punch. Harbinger can dole out alot of focus to them and with the choir I would hate to face them.
The hierophant with martyrdom is a mean combo, but keep your army alive with the harby taking damage here and there with Martyrdom. Then next turn Feat. Most things wont come close to attack, just watch for ranged. Use your crusaders to block lines of fire. Use any focus she has extra and the hierophant to heal and she will be ready to go again in no time.
The only one I would take out is the mechanic, but for a point hes not too bad. I would rather see you with a vassal of menoth but you would have to loose a point else where. With the Vassal of Menoth you would have enliven, ancilliary attack and a ranged magic spell for damage. Most people forget this. The spell would help with Incoporial creatures. Just an idea, maybe loose the heirophant for VoM and keep mechanic. I just thing the VoM will provide you with a better toolbox than the others.
I will state how I will stop this army in my next post, when I figure out a way. Twisted Evil
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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  eJacob on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:24 pm

I really wanna play against the Gators more so that I can learn what all they are capable of. I know they have to be able to do more than walk on water and bite stuff! Hope I get to play ya in the tourney John, for it seems we have avoided each other in all events thus far.

Vassal is a good idea and I might consider it but if I am to use Martyrdom to save the choir like I want/need to I need more than just using extra focus to heal. At the same time this list does lack the ability to take out incorporeal models and enliven could add some survivability to a Jack or two. Heirophant will also make spells cheaper and on the charge turn could be very valuable. Casting Crusader's Call for 2 instead of 3 adds 1 more focus to a warjack. Pros and cons, love the game for that reason. Ultimately I think I am happy with the Heirophant, though I hope I don't regret not taking your advice come Saturday.

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  GregB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:27 am

Although I think that Exemplar errants would be scarier with the martyrdom ability of the Harbinger, your list is pretty solid.

I think the Avatar of Menoth would be nice too, to save on focus for more spell goodness.

2 problems you have : Controling the center of the table. All of this is pretty slow and you don't shoot much. Of course feat turn should help a bit, but still...
The other is the nemesis lists you get.

With Retribution :
- Mage Hunter Strike Force and Eyriss : Harby doesn't like them much as they can shoot here pretty efficiently ignoring her pile of focus and Eyriss can deprive her of her focus completely. Of course, your feat should give you time to get rid of them with everything you have, they will be too far away to shoot, even with Ravyn's snipe. But make sure to kill them all.

With Cryx :
- Although again, your feat would help, Satyxis raiders and captain are your biggest threat. Even with the feat, depedning how you deployed your jacks, they won't need to get closer to Harby to get one of them, whip it like hell and backlash you big time. Two things to confront that comfortably : Kill the captain (to avoid the additional 2" movement). Kill the UA (to avoid the mini feat). Here is the use for Nicia.

Typically, I would play agains that list :

Pirate Queen Skarre (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Seether (9pts)
* Skarlock Thrall (2pts)
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (5pts)
* 3 Brute Thrall (3pts)
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls (2pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
Pistol Wraith (3pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)
3 Scrap Thrall (1pts)

Deathripper is here to relay backlash from Skarre, to double the effect of the Satyxis.

Skarlock and scrap thralls are here to multiply Skarre's pool of focus.

The pistol wraith is here to annoy your jacks by freezing them.

Mechanithralls and Seether are pretty self explanatory !! Mwahahahahaha !

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  eJacob on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:50 am

That's a pretty scary list I will admit, however that is quite a bit to activate each turn. When making a list for a tournament I try to keep the 7 minute turns in mind for that does not allow a lot... Originally I played with full Errants but due to timed turns and lesser point cost, I decided to go with TFG. I'm hoping Nicia and the Allegiants will be able to either threathen their caster or to engage/dispose of those pesky units/solos that would really give me or Harby a hard time.

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  GregB on Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:55 am

eJacob wrote:That's a pretty scary list I will admit, however that is quite a bit to activate each turn. When making a list for a tournament I try to keep the 7 minute turns in mind for that does not allow a lot... Originally I played with full Errants but due to timed turns and lesser point cost, I decided to go with TFG. I'm hoping Nicia and the Allegiants will be able to either threathen their caster or to engage/dispose of those pesky units/solos that would really give me or Harby a hard time.

Errants +UA are exactly the same number as the TFG and with TFG, you have two more tests to do : Terror and continuous effect fire.

My advice would still to go with an Avatar because this would be the thing that would block all the strategies I gave you with Ret. AND Cryx. pig
Plus his price would make you sacrifice something else and would allow you to play faster. Smile

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Re: Your Answer? Harbinger 35pt

Post  eJacob on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:09 pm

TFG with UA is 2 points cheaper than Errants with UA and Fire Continuous is on their turn, along with Terror on their turn if they movie into melee with me. Though the Avatar would be a great addition to the list I do not want to sacrfice any of the other Jacks to put him in there. I had scenarios in mind when making this list. Hopefully between the TFG, high Def solos, and Harby's feat I can pull out a scenario win with this list.

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