Wanderers of the Faith

Go down

Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:42 am

Wanderers of the Faith (my experiences playing Amon Ad-Raza’s theme force, totally inspired by Gaston’s High Reclaimer Chronicles on the Privateer Press forums).

So I finally had an opportunity to sneak away to the friendly local game store (hereinafter FLGS) to play some Warmachine tonight. I frequently go to the FLGS, but seldom to play. Prior to playing there tonight, the last time I had been there to play was July of 2011. It is not that I don’t have time to game, because I do, it is just that the time I have open to game happens to be after the FLGS is closed. If I ever run a game store, that place is going to be open after 9 P.M on weekdays, and after 7 P.M. on Saturdays. So instead of playing Warmachine, I frequently paint Warmachine models. As such, I have amassed a little collection spanning 2 factions. By my calculations, I have painted 17.2 points of models for every single game of Warmachine I have ever played (that is 15 games for the curious).

So tonight I decided to try out an army that I had never played before. When I first got into Warmachine, I started with Cygnar. Shortly thereafter, I decided to dabble into a second faction, that way I would be equipped to run demo games. At the time, while knowing very little about the game, I had decided that Amon Ad-Raza would make a great sparring partner for Coleman Stryker. I decided that I would build and paint his theme force, because I thought Idrians were cool (a feeling I still hold to this day). I finished painting the army in February of 2011, but never played it, instead focusing on my Cygnar whenever the opportunity to play presented itself. I decided tonight would be different. No matter what, I was going to play the Wanderers of the Faith.

When I arrived at the FLGS there were 3 games of Warmachine taking place. I had called ahead to make sure folks were there playing, since I had blindly gone there in the past on Warmachine night only to find the place was empty). I quickly found someone willing to game. The store was closing in an hour and a half, so I suggested we play 35 points with timed turns, and do a steamroller scenario. At this point I should state that out of my 15 games of Warmachine played, 8 of them have been in tournaments with timed turns and scenarios. At the FLGS, no scenario and no time limits are the norm. I wanted to shake things up a bit and make sure we finished before the store closed.

The Wanderers of the Faith theme force practically builds itself at 35 points. I think it really needs a 50 points to come into its own. It is doable at 35, but far from optimal (assuming it ever is optimal at all). I don’t think you could really do it at 25 points. So I have Amon. To make Tier 2 I have 2 min. units of Idrians, both with UAs (one of the UAs is free thanks to the Tier bonus. I also have 4 Allegiants. I could take just 3 and still get the Tier 3 perk of advance deploying them, but I have a feeling that I should try and maximize the benefits given to me by the Theme Force. I also decided to reach Tier 4 by taking 2 Vigilants and 2 Dervishes, so each one starts the game with a focus. At this point, I still have 2 points left, so I went with a Reclaimer, because I think he looks sweet.

So, to recap:
Amon Ad-Raza (6)
Dervish 4
Dervish 4
Vigilant 4
Vigilant4
Idrian min 6
UA 3
Idrian min 6
UA free
Allegiant 2
Allegiant 2
Allegiant 2
Allegiant 2
Reclaimer 2

I was playing against Cryx. In fact every time I have played at this FLGS, it had been against Cryx, despite playing against different people. As an aside, I don’t really care for using the term “meta” interchangeably with “store” or “local area.” I submit that instead of “meta” we should adopt a new term like “zeitgeist” or “gestalt” to use in its place. So I was facing Bane and Bile Thralls, with BLT. EGoreshade was the ‘caster, and he had a Leviathan and a Slayer in his battlegroup. There was also a Pistol Wraith and some scrapthralls.

We were playing the first Steamroller mission, where you have to control a zone on your opponent’s side of the table while having your ‘caster in a zone. The table was very sparsely dotted with terrain. One small hill, 3 small walls, and a small pool of shallow water near the middle of the table. Maybe it is the baggage I bring with me from other game systems, or maybe it is just this FLGS and the two different tournaments I have been to, but does anyone play this game with terrain? Admittedly, nearly everything in my army either has or can have pathfinder, and most of my infantry receive an enhanced benefit from concealment or cover, but I’d love to play on a table that maybe had a forest or some buildings, just once.

I opted to go second, which in retrospect was a mistake, since I have 2 units of Idrians and 4 solos that advance deploy. Had I gone first, I would’ve plopped down Amon, his 4 ‘jacks, and the Reclaimer and then said “done.” He had his Bile Thralls and a Pistol Wraith on his left flank. Towards the Center he had his Leviathan, BLT and Goreshade, then came the Banes in the center/right, with the Slayer on his right. The Scrapthralls were in the back. They played no part in the battle, I was told they were fodder for Goreshade’s feat (which was never used).

I put a unit of Idrians on each flank. I put 2 Allegiants on my far left, and 2 in left/center. I wanted to try and keep them away from the Bile Thralls, which I assessed were his easiest way of dealing with them. I put the Reclaimer behind the Idrian unit that was across from the Bile Thralls. My ‘jacks were in the middle around Amon, in sort of a chevron with the Vigilants leading and the Dervishes trailing on the sides. My idea was to have the Vigilants take the first hits and maybe tie some stuff up. I had one unit of Idrians prey the Banes, and the other prey the Biles. My thought was that I wanted to put prey on something I knew he was going to be coming at me with.

On his first turn he put Occultation on the Bile Thralls. That made me sad. He ran all of his stuff up.

On my first turn, I had all of the Allegiants assume the shifting sands stance and then advance . Amon cast Synergy and Mobility, then charged BLT to get 3 more inches of movement. The ‘jacks ran an amazing 14 inches, passing Amon and forming a protective layer around him. Mobility is a sweet spell. The Idrians on my left cautiously advanced. I had planned on doing the whole “run then go to ground” thing, but I didn’t want to get too close and get charged on his next turn, and he really wasn’t going to be shooting at me. With the Idrians across from the Bile Thralls I was a little perplexed. Since they had stealth, it was going to be very difficult for me to get the drop on them as I had originally planned. So they just stood there. The reclainer moved closer to the ‘jacks, but kept most of the Idrians in his CMD.

On his second turn, he charged 3 of my ‘jacks with the Banes and BLT. The end result was a wrecked Dervish and a Vigilant with its movement system destroyed. The Bile Thralls moved up. The Pistol Wraith killed an Idrian, but the Reclaimer was too far away to benefit.

During the maintenance phase of my second turn, I decided Amon was going to use his feat, so I let Synergy lapse. My initial plan at the beginning of the game was to pretend that Amon didn’t have a feat, so I wouldn’t get bogged down and run into time issues while trying to maximize it, but I couldn’t resist. I thought I could get some ‘jacks into Goreshade with the benefit of Mobility. The first thing I did was have the Allegiants advance (under shifting sands stance) into some Banes to tie them up and keep them from reinforcing the scrum in the middle. Then I wasted a bunch of time at the beginning of my turn messing around with the Idrians. I had those on my left shoot at the Banes. The prey game them additional movement to get within the 5” range I needed. Some died, but some persisted thanks to tough. The Idrians across from the Biles were just outside of 10”. Prey is neat for being able to measure and get an idea of range. So I ran the Idrians away from the Biles, towards the middle. Amon was up next, but first I had to use my 3 minutes time extension. He popped his feat, cast Synergy, then Mobility, then advanced over to the wrecked Dervish to thresher the Banes standing there. I killed 2, but the 3rd remained, thanks to tough. In retrospect, while typing this, it seems odd to me that it took me 3 minutes to do that, but it did. My time expired. I had the ‘jacks with 2 focus each, under the effects of Mobiliy and Synergy, unactivated. However, I did earn a control point.

On his 3rd turn, he won fairly easily. He had a Bile Thrall come over and explode, taking care of the Allegiants tying up the Banes. The Banes and Tartarus charged into Amon and quickly killed him. And thus ended my first game as a Menite, and my 15th Warmachine game overall

Thoughts:

I think I play my casters too aggressively. I realize that I need to protect them, but at the same time I need Amon to be killing stuff to build Synergy and I need him forward to project his control area ahead so that the ‘jacks will benefit from Synergy

I really find Bile Thralls annoying. I’m not quite sure how to deal with them when playing this list, especially when they have stealth. Yes, I realize I could run a Vanquisher, but then I’d be cutting into the number of ‘jacks that could build synergy, but it is not like 4 ‘jacks is really all that much to begin with. Maybe a Redeemer? I don’t know. I don’t really want to build the list to counter one specific thing, but past experience would tell me that if I am playing at this FLGS again, I’ll be facing Bile Thralls.

In the future, at 35 points, I’m going to change things around. I’m not entirely sold on the Reclaimer. In order for him to work in this list, He needs to hang out around the Idrians, who are going to be on the flanks, while my jacks are going to be in the middle. So he would need to babysit them until a few died, then book it over to some jacks to load them up, assuming he is still alive. I think the Reclaimer would work best with the Zealots, but I don’t really see them in the 35 point list, or even the 50 for that matter.I think the next time I’ll take the 2 points he frees up and upgrade one of my light ‘jacks into a Crusader. Now that I think about it, I might paint up the other two Crusaders I have sitting around (don’t ask) and run 3 Crusaders instead of 4 lights and a Reclaimer. The Tier 4 benefit isn’t really all that great. It does allow me to cast both Mobility and Synergy on the first turn, but I only really need Mobility on the first turn, which I could cast and then still have 4 focus to hand out for running ‘jacks. I think the Reclaimer would work best with the Zealots, but I don’t really see them in the 35 point list, or even the 50 for that matter.

I really liked the Allegiants. I’ll be keeping the 4 of them. But for the purging Bile Thrall, they might have actually done something cool.

What I learned:
1. When you have a bunch of stuff that advance deploys, you might want to go first.
2. I might not want to make stealth enemies my prey target.
3. Prey lets you measure 10” toward your prey target. The information received from this measurement can be very helpful.
4. Maybe I should play an army under more relaxed conditions to get a feel for activation order and such before trying it out in the crucible of timed turns.
5. Mobility is awesome. Synergy requires finesse, and maybe isn’t as cool as I thought.

I’ve you’ve made it this far, thanks for reading! I hope you enjoyed it.
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  GregB on Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:47 am

Very good game report.

A few things I think important :
- Idrians are awesome indeed. Especially with their UA. Prey should be used on solos first. You wll kill those easier and once it's dealt with, you get to pick immediately a new prey, allowing you to start and kill somethig else before your turn ends.
- Amon should be played agressively. You were just betrayed by the lack of time. And Synergy/mobiliy/feat have to be done together. You didn't make any mistake on that.
- To deal with Bile thralls, indeed you should play first. The advance move is always profitable, even when you play second. But dealing with your worst threat is really important. Of course sending one of your jacks in front of them would have prevented their purge more efficiently.
avatar
GregB

Posts : 369
Join date : 2011-12-09
Age : 40
Location : Findlay, OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  eJacob on Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:20 pm

First off, good read! Amon has found a special place in my heart; I have found him to be an extremely effective jack caster (go figure). I have a lot of fun running Jack heavy lists with him, though I admit I do not have Idrians so I can't play his Theme Force. And I believe Synergy to be every bit as amazing and maybe more so than you previous thought. Yes, you got to cast it, but you did not get to use it. I don't care if the bonus is +1, it is still every bit worth 2 points. Eye of Menoth gives +1 (I love Eye of Menoth and it is good) and Choir is +2 (and we all know how amazing they are!!!), so everything beyond that is phenomenal. Eye has a cost of 3 and I pay it constantly so I have no prob paying that 2. Turning Dervish into Pow 15-18 or even higher with choir will definitely open your opponents eyes. Synergy, Mobility, and a Dervish(sidestep) got me my first turn 2 assassination, and let me tell you it was very satisfying.

A couple things: -I can't really see the usefulness of a Reclaimer in that list as you pointed out. It is a great solo but better suited for other lists/casters.
-I would definitely turn a Vigilant into a Crusader with those 2 points, but suggest keeping your dervishes and vigilant or swapping the Vigilant out for a 3rd Dervish (not sure if that is a possibility). A Dervish is 4 points of beatdown or caster assassination goodness, when wielded properly. Sidestep is a great tool when attempting to assassinate a caster/lock and for throwing a wrench into your opponents well oiled machine.
-I do enjoy running Crusaders with Amon but I would not sacrifice the Dervish, unless you find that you keep losing due to lack of armor/staying power or punching power.
-Zealots could be the answer for things such as Bile Thralls. With UA I find them to be very useful and fun and annoying to my opponent (which I love). Taking no damage for a turn can be used in many ways, guaranteeing blocked charge lanes, albeit a Slam could still get through them. They are definitely more useful in a casual game without time restrictions and can erase entire units from the board. Though taking the zealots would require losing the Allegiants or Idrians (and tier bonus). Either way seems unlikely.

As far as the Bile Thralls there isn't much you can do in your spot, with the theme restrictions and already packed list. I haven't found myself playing themed forces much, mostly because there aren't too many that I can, but also because I find I like certain things too much not to take them. Tier bonuses are nice but I find them to be a bit lackluster. Look forward to seeing some Menites across from the table from me.
avatar
eJacob
Admin

Posts : 194
Join date : 2011-11-19
Age : 31
Location : North Baltimore, OH

View user profile http://steamtank.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:33 am

So I got some more free time and managed to make it back to the FLGS for Warmachine night. The non-Cryx players were already playing each other, so that left me with my choice of Cryx opponents. I chose to play against the Cryx guy I did not play against last week. My list was modified slightly from last week. We were also playing Outflank, Outfight, Outlast (I think it is called) so we had 7 points of reinforcements.

Amon
-Dervish x2
-Vigilant x2
-Repenter
Idrians w/ UA
Idrians
Allegiant x3
Vassal
Menofixer

Reinforcements:
Min. Zealots w/ Monolith
Menofixer

He was playing Terminus. He had Mechanithralls with 3 of the Brutes, a Necrosurgeon with Stitch Thralls, 2 Pistol Wraiths, Gerlack, Darragh Wrathe, a Reaper, and Madelyn Corbeau. His reinforcements were a unit of Bile Thralls and that Witch thing that has Power Booster. I won the roll and decided to deploy first. Terrain was largely irrelevant. There was a forest, but it was way off to the side, and only served to slow down is Bile Thralls when they entered. I chose Gerlack as my Prey target.

I deployed in a tight formation, with the Allegiants out in front, then the Vigilants, followed by Amon in the center with the Repenter and a Dervish on each flank. The Idrians without the UA were behind that. The Idrians with the UA were on my right flank. The idea was that the Idrians on the right flank were going to hold the right objective with assistance from the reinforcing Zealots. I’d send an Allegiant to each objective, and the main force would move to the left objective. First turn, I ran everything up. My Idrians went to ground, seeking cover from the Pistol Wraith that was lurking on that flank.
His first turn he basically ran everything up.

My second turn I put the Zealots out on the right flank, they ran into the objective and activated all their stuff that made them nigh invulnerable. I remembered to put admonition on a Vigilant this turn, then Amon went and cast mobility (synergy had been upkept from the previous turn) and moved up slightly. The monks moved towards objectives, and the one in the middle stood there blocking the advance of a Brute. I had the enlivened Vigilant advance into combat with a Brute. He whiffed. A this point I learned that Terminus has flight, so I began to “circle the wagons” around Amon, forming a wall of light jacks and Idrians. Foolishly, I ran the Idrians over from my right flank to try and jam up the middle. Later they would only serve to fuel the monster Terminus.

On his second turn, …well it is kind of a blur now. I got quite disheartened when Terminus got up to 31 armor. And I learned that enliven can be easily shut down by running Mechanithralls behind the jack so it doesn’t have a clear exit. The joy of this turn came from watching my Allegiants. He tried attacking them only to have them move away when he missed, often behind targets of opportunity like Pistol Wraiths. Oh, I remember now, one of the Pistol Wraiths shot my Dervish a couple of times and did this thing to it where he had to forfeit his movement or action the following turn.

On my third turn, I decided to feat. For some reason I had Amon charge the Pistol Wraith. I wanted him to build up the Synergy chain, but in doing so, he was kind of exposed. The surrounded Vigilant added to the Synergy chain. I had a Vigilant and a Dervish, each with three focus, on Terminus, but they couldn’t do a single thing to him. I moved the rest of my stuff in front on Amon to try and protect him from the unstoppable Terminus. In retrospect, perhaps I would have been better off just backing up my army and leaving the monks out there to contest the objectives.

His third turn, Madelyn moved Terminus 3 inches. The Reaper and the Mechanithralls cleared some of the Idrians out from in front of Amon, creating a landing patch for Terminus, who flew in with 11 focus and proceeded to kill Amon.

Thoughts:
1. I totally failed my personal morale check, and I think it led to poor play. On the one hand, I’m realistic by thinking that I’m not going to win playing against a vet player who is not gimping themselves with a crappy theme force, but I need to try and keep my hopes up and think positive. So I set little mini goals for myself each game. Something along the lines of “this game I’m going to kill the Deathjack,” or something like that.
2. I’m thinking I really need to stop playing with timed turns. Although this time I never ran out of time, I did intentionally skip over some things I knew I wouldn’t have time for. How does anyone use the zealot’s grenades with timed turns? All of those deviating AOEs would have eaten up a huge chunk of my time. I need to get my fundamentals down before I put myself on the clock, but if I never play under time restrictions, I’ll never know how to cope with them.
3. Maybe I’m just making excuses, but Terminus seems real tough to deal with using a tier 4 Amon Ad-Raza theme force. At one point I attacked him with a Dervish at the end of a Synergy chain and rolled a total of 31 for damage, and didn’t do a single point of damage to Terminus.
4. I like using my warcaster to try and do cool things, like killing stuff, but doing so leaves me exposed, then I die. I really don’t want to play with them in constant hiding. Perhaps I need a different caster then?
5. Zealots seem way cool. With the mini-feat from the monolith and the “no targeted from spells” thing up, they are great objective holders. I was impressed with them, considering how cheap they were. However, because of their immunity, my opponent left them alone, otherwise I’m sure that Terminus could’ve eaten them had he chose to.
6. Next time, maybe I’ll swap the Repenter out for a third Dervish. Synergy was pretty cool once I got it going. Too bad I can’t take the Choir. +5/+5 would be sweet.

Musings:
1. Perhaps it is my newness/poor play, but I’ve never seen a scenario win. They always end in a caster kill (mine, with three exceptions). Maybe between players of equal skill level the scenario conditions might be more relevant. Perhaps at 50 points the scenarios might become more meaningful. Maybe it is just me.
2. I’m wondering what my overall goal is with Warmachine, and if it is achievable. I’m not trying to become a top player. I really like to paint, and I like to play with stuff that I think is cool. In this game, that is a recipe for repeated, crushing losses. I don’t really feel like I have the time to invest to become a decent player, but I’m okay with that. When I have the most fun playing is in a tournament setting, around round 3 or 4, when I am 0-2 or 0-3 and firmly enmeshed in the losers bracket. I find those games delightful. Is there some secret underground of casual Warmachine players?
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  GregB on Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:17 am

Devstro wrote:Thoughts:
2. I’m thinking I really need to stop playing with timed turns.
3. Maybe I’m just making excuses, but Terminus seems real tough to deal with using a tier 4 Amon Ad-Raza theme force.
4. I like using my warcaster to try and do cool things, like killing stuff, but doing so leaves me exposed, then I die. I really don’t want to play with them in constant hiding. Perhaps I need a different caster then?
6. Next time, maybe I’ll swap the Repenter out for a third Dervish. Synergy was pretty cool once I got it going. Too bad I can’t take the Choir. +5/+5 would be sweet.

2. Yes. I really don't know how to deal with a 50 AP list in timed turn... Well, I know, it means more warjacks...
3. No you're not making excuses. Amon is the only Menoth without anti magic twist. And Terminus is the only Cryx who does not really care for magic anyway. So it's the worst matchup you can have. The limitations of the tier lists make it even worse.
4. I think you're playing it better everytime. If you like "in your face" casters, try eKreoss. Smile
6. Choirs, another good reason to skip the tier lists.

Devstro wrote:
Musings:
1. Perhaps it is my newness/poor play, but I’ve never seen a scenario win.
2. I’m wondering what my overall goal is with Warmachine, and if it is achievable. I’m not trying to become a top player. I really like to paint, and I like to play with stuff that I think is cool. In this game, that is a recipe for repeated, crushing losses. I don’t really feel like I have the time to invest to become a decent player, but I’m okay with that. When I have the most fun playing is in a tournament setting, around round 3 or 4, when I am 0-2 or 0-3 and firmly enmeshed in the losers bracket. I find those games delightful. Is there some secret underground of casual Warmachine players?

1.It will happen with some other casters. And with a little more experience. But Terminus is all about killing the opponent's caster.
2. Casual doesn't mean loser. You can play what you like and get really good with it. But Warmachine is also a combo game and fighting with only list (like for Hardcore tournaments) means to chose the most polyvalent casters on the scene. Itmeans you will get bad match-ups too. The reason why you're allowed the second list is because of that. You could keep your Amon list and build another one (eKreoss for instance) with different things. And when it comes to facing your opponent (Cryx), you could deal with it more... quietly. geek
avatar
GregB

Posts : 369
Join date : 2011-12-09
Age : 40
Location : Findlay, OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  eJacob on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:19 am

I have found that playing timed turns with friends in preparation for a tournament has been incredibly helpful, but when playing with friends I much prefer to play a "casual" game without timed turns. I am first and foremost a casual Warmachine player who just happens enjoying playing in tournaments when I can.

Admittedly I have never tried using Zealots in a timed turn game, and probably wouldn't for the very reasons you have stated. But in casual games I absolutely love them! First game I played them I destroyed an entire unit of Hex Hunters with UA (Legion) after denying them any kind of attacks on me(mini feat and Warding prayer). I love telling my opponent "No".

One of the most important things in this lovely game, in my opinion, is caster/lock positioning. Scenario wins are usually a process that takes a couple of turns whereas an assassination attempt is a surprise, and usually happens within one turn. It can be very difficult to protect your caster especailly one who likes to be up front. Personally I play the scenario until I see an opening for a caster kill. Sometimes I make the mistake of trying to make an assassination run where this is not.

We will have to get some people together for some casual games in the near future.
avatar
eJacob
Admin

Posts : 194
Join date : 2011-11-19
Age : 31
Location : North Baltimore, OH

View user profile http://steamtank.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:01 am

SHWTD wrote:
4. I think you're playing it better everytime. If you like "in your face" casters, try eKreoss. Smile

Interesting you should say that...I'm just putting the finishing touches on a unit of Knights Exemplar, I'm in the process of assembling two more, I recently put together the Fire of Salvation, and the Errants are next in my painting queue. RHoven is still in his box though. So maybe I'll have an eKreoss force by the end of the summer.

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I really appreciate it.
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  GregB on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:15 am

Don't forget, with eKreoss, Daughters of the flame become really nasty ! cherry
avatar
GregB

Posts : 369
Join date : 2011-12-09
Age : 40
Location : Findlay, OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:25 am

I had never considered running Daughters with him. Yes, that would be quite nasty.

I don't know why the Menoth theme forces seem to garner so much of my attention when it comes to building my Menoth army. I've never given the Cygnar theme forces a second look. I think I might need to get away from my fixation on Menoth theme forces if I want to grow as a player. Maybe I can come back after a few years, once I have the basics solid. But what the hell am I going to do with 2 full units of Idrians with 2 UAs and 4 Allegiants Question
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  GregB on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:54 am

Devstro wrote:I had never considered running Daughters with him. Yes, that would be quite nasty.

I don't know why the Menoth theme forces seem to garner so much of my attention when it comes to building my Menoth army. I've never given the Cygnar theme forces a second look. I think I might need to get away from my fixation on Menoth theme forces if I want to grow as a player. Maybe I can come back after a few years, once I have the basics solid. But what the hell am I going to do with 2 full units of Idrians with 2 UAs and 4 Allegiants Question

If I were you I wouldn't quit this them list you have. Try playing against something else than Cryx (and retribution too) first. You might enjoy it more.
avatar
GregB

Posts : 369
Join date : 2011-12-09
Age : 40
Location : Findlay, OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:02 am

SHWTD wrote: Try playing against something else than Cryx (and retribution too) first. You might enjoy it more.

Easier said than done my friend Very Happy I'd love to play against anything but Cryx. In my Warmachine career, I've only ever played against Circle (twice), Cygnar (four times), Khador (once), Cryx (7 times), Menoth (once), and Legion (once).
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  eJacob on Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:33 pm

The FA is per caster so it's possible if you were to play a 100 point game that you could use all of that. With as little as you are playing as it is I doubt you will be playing many 100 point games, however.
avatar
eJacob
Admin

Posts : 194
Join date : 2011-11-19
Age : 31
Location : North Baltimore, OH

View user profile http://steamtank.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:25 pm

eJacob wrote:The FA is per caster so it's possible if you were to play a 100 point game that you could use all of that. With as little as you are playing as it is I doubt you will be playing many 100 point games, however.

I never thought of that! Great idea. Thank you Jacob.

Out of curiosity, I did the math, and if I took all of my painted Menoth stuff, and factored in the 'caster's 'jack points, I would have exactly 100 points. It would be a really odd army though. One minimum choir probably wouldn't cut it for 11 warjacks Very Happy Watch out for the pKreoss and Amon tag-team!
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  eJacob on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:26 am

Very nice. 100 painted points of Menoth would be a beautiful thing. I am getting pretty close to having my Menoth force fully painted. Should go through and see what I can field painted.
avatar
eJacob
Admin

Posts : 194
Join date : 2011-11-19
Age : 31
Location : North Baltimore, OH

View user profile http://steamtank.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:50 pm

I'll bet it would look sweet too. I wouldn't know. I've only ever had 35 points of it out at a time. Maybe I need to dig it all out and do a family photo...

I don't like painting 'casters though, because everytime I do, I have less points painted than before Cool
avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Devstro on Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:29 am

Based on response from my previous posts, I had decided that I had been going about things all wrong. The thought had occurred to me, that when I walk into a game store where I am relatively unknown, and ask to play a Warmachine tournament scenario with timed turns, while brandishing a fully painted army, well…people might assume that I know what I am doing, and that I want to be challenged by the hardest they have. This would be a perfectly rational assumption, however it would be quite opposite of the truth.

So this evening, when I entered the game store, I boldly declared “who wants to play a casual game against a Menoth army with no choir or heavy ‘jacks?” I had one taker. It was my Cryx opponent from last week, however, this time he decided to try out his Skorne army. I was instantly excited. For one, I had never played against Skorne before, and two: I wasn’t playing against Cryx yet again. Despite the fact that we were playing casually and with no timed turns, we decided to play a Steamroller scenario. My hand was still aching from cutting out properly sized objective markers from a yard of felt that I had recently purchased on the cheap at a Jo-Ann Fabrics that was going out of business, and I was determined to get some use out of them. The one we rolled was number 17, Diversion. It wasn’t really relevant to the battle, as neither of us scored any points throughout the course of our game. Instead of the usually mostly blank boards that pass for gaming tables at this store, we placed two pieces of felt on the table to represent forests. Finally, my army of mostly pathfinder stuff would have a use for the ability!

Unlike my previous games, where I had always plowed ahead with a “burned hand learns best” attitude, this time I discussed each of my opponent’s models with him in detail prior to deployment. I even went so far as to make notes on a little memo pad that I had brought along for such a purpose. I wrote down the defense and armor values for the models that I wanted to kill so I would not have to ask. My opponent was using Morghoul as his warlock. Morghoul looks like a weird combination of Freddy Kruger, the Shredder, and David Bowie. He had a Bronzeback and a Gladiator, as well as a Cyclops Savage and Shaman. There was a full unit of Praetorian Swordsmen with UA, 4 paingivers, and Aptimus Marketh. He deployed first.

I had changed up my list a little from last game. This time I decided that I needed more Dervishes. I hadn’t ever really seen them perform yet, so I thought that if I took 4 of them, one might live long enough to connect with something. I also brought one Vigilant, the idea being that he would be out in the lead with enliven on him (supplied by the Vassal I brought). After getting damaged he could retreat back to the lines and hopefully get repaired by the Mechanic I also brought along. I brought only 3 Allegiants this time, and only one UA for the 2 units of Idrians. This had freed up enough points for the extra ‘jack. Here they are:



As for my deployment, I put 2 of the Allegiants in a position to go contest his flag, my other Allegiant on my other flank to go get my flag, and the Idrians with the UA advance deployed in a forest. They named the Bronzeback as their prey. The rest of my stuff was bricked up in the center with the Vigilant leading the way. Amon was in the center-back, with a unit of Idrians as his bodyguard.

The first turns were fairly uneventful. We closed on each other. I ran the enlivened Vigilant 14” out to the middle of the table. The Dervishes formed a battle-line behind him, ready to countercharge. He had moved his Bronzeback to the other side of the table, so I was seeing some benefit to naming it as my Prey target.

On his second turn, he ran the Cyclops Savage up to control his flag. He also charged the Vigilant with the Swordsmen. It was here that I learned that maybe Enliven is not as cool as the internet makes it out to be. It should allow me to move my ‘jack away after it takes damage, however if your opponent runs models behind your ‘jack, he could be unable to move because there is no room for the base to fit through. However, it didn’t really matter, as Enliven was never triggered. Despite 3 charging Swordsmen, 2 of whom hit, the Vigilant took no damage. Armor 21 is sweet! Morghoul had moved up centrally and popped his feat. It was explained to me that his feat primarily affected hordes; the only consequence for me was I couldn’t spend focus in his control area. Amon was well out of his control area. Some of my ‘jacks I knew were in it, and those that weren’t would need to be in it when spending focus, so it looked as though my feat would be delayed.

On my second turn, I upkept Synergy, and advanced my Allegiants in Shifting Sands stance. I always use this ability. I put two in base contact with the Savage contesting his flag, and I put the third in contact with my flag. This act was of no significance unless I had a model in a zone that was behind his main battle-line. The Idrians in the woods took some CRA shots at the unengaged Swordsmen, killing 3 of them. A this point I wanted to charge Amon out to kill a Swordsman to get Synergy going, but I decided against it. I advanced him more centrally, so that my ‘jacks would be in his control, and I camped 5 focus. My Vigilant started off the Synergy chain, by killing a Swordsman, then the Dervishes went to town. I’ve got to admit, Side Stepping around the unit of Swordsmen was a lot of fun. But in my glee of Swordsman slaughter, I forgot about the Bronzeback’s counter-charge ability, and the fact that he had admonishment cast upon him. My opponent chose to have the counter-charge trigger first, putting a dent into the Dervish. Then he used Admonishment to move the Bronzeback away when I moved a different Dervish up. At this point I had weathered Morghoul’s feat turn. I had but one Idrian dead. I was controlling my flag and contesting his. Amon was snug in back, behind a wall of light ‘jacks and Idrians. Things were looking good.

On his 3rd turn, the Allegiants demonstrated why I like them. His Cyclops tried to get rid of the two contesting his flag. He had to boost to reasonably hit defense 17. He missed his attack , so that Allegiant advanced behind him. So he boosted an attack against the other one. This attack hit, and would have killed the Allegiant, but I made my tough roll. He then did a bunch of stuff in his backfield with all of his support pieces. Then end result was that his Titans were P+S 21. The Gladiator had some crazy slam movement bonus, plus some other movement bonus, to come barreling out of a forest into one of my Dervishes. He whiffed on the slam attack, but proceeded to destroy the Dervish with purchased attacks. Morghoul came up and tried to wreck the Dervish that had been softened up by the Bronzeback’s counter-charge. Despite buying attacks at 2 for 1 fury. He just couldn’t do it. He hit a few times and got the Dervish down to 3 boxes left, but in the end decided to leave a fury on Morghoul for a damage transfer. He had intended to wreck the Dervish then sprint back to safety, but it didn’t work out. He had the Bronzeback advance up and finish the Dervish.

Now it was my turn. I decided that it was going to be my feat turn, and the last turn of the game, as the store was closing soon. Morghoul was close. First I had the Allegiants attack the Savage. I managed to put some damage into him and take out his Spirit. I had the Idrians put a CRA into the Bronzeback, which hit for a few points. Amon then led off. He cast Synergy and put the focus on a Dervish. He then charged the Swordsman UA. This brought Morghoul into his melee range, thanks to reach. I used his Thresher ability, also catching a poor Idrian and killing him. I boosted to hit on Morghoul, putting the focus onto a dervish. I hit Morghoul and boosted damage (focus on Dervishes, one is now at 3 points, my Synergy chain is a +1) for 11 points which got transferred off. Morghoul now had no fury. Amon bought another boosted attack and missed (the 2 focus went on the other Dervish, bringing it up to three. The vigilant went next, swinging at the gladiator for the purpose of building Synergy. He hit, Synergy is now at +2. Then a Dervish went, walking up and attacking the Bronzeback. He hit. He did some damage to the Bronzeback. Now the Synergy chain is at +3. My last Dervish walks up to Morghoul. With the Synergy bonus, I need 8s to hit. I miss both of my unboosted initial attacks. I spend 1 focus to buy an additional attack and 1 focus to boost. I hit. I boost damage and I roll just enough to kill Morghoul. It was lucky because I had nothing else that could have got to him this turn, and Amon was sitting right there with no focus and no bodyguard.

Unfortunately we didn’t have much time for post-game analysis. The store was closing. I put my stuff away, bought some Ryn Flesh, and came home.


Thoughts:
1. I’m still not sold on the Vassal, or the Mechanic. With the Vassal, it created these weird activation issues, where he had to go first, then have the ‘jack within 5” and LOS when he finished moving. It was hard for him to do this and keep up, when my ‘jacks can move 14”. And enliven can be shut down, fairly easily it seems. Maybe he’d be sweet if I had a ranged ‘jack shooting at the enemy. It’d be really cool to get a second shot out of a Vanquisher. And the Mechanic did nothing but potentially get in my way. My ‘jacks, being lights, were either fine, or wrecked. There was no in-between. I also doubt my ability to roll an 8 or less when I really need to. On the other hand, what am I going to do with the 3 points that these guys cost? I could bring back the second Idrian UA. A second Prey target would be nice.
2. By repeatedly playing and making minor adjustments to a list, I really gain a better understanding of how it works together. Even when I play four games in a row at a tournament, I don’t feel I really get an understanding of it, as those are quick, timed turns. It was good to play and have time to be contemplative. I was able to see more options available to me be having the time.
3. The Fury mechanic seems more in-depth than focus does. I need to learn more about it. There is a lot going on under the hood there that I need to understand .

Coming Soon: The New Adventures of the High Reclaimer and Pals!

avatar
Devstro

Posts : 91
Join date : 2012-03-12
Location : Cleveland

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  GregB on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:25 am

Indeed unless you make the vassals run like crazies on the first rounds, they're too slow for your list as it is.

Of course, you could also replace the light jacks (fragile and all) with some heavies.

And when it comes to shooting, nothing is better than a Reckoner for Menoth. And that would mean your vassal would be useful there. rendeer


Everytime I hear about Skorne and Morghoul, my tiny little heart gets all pumped up. I love this caster. Although against Warmachine, it's a pretty bad match up.
avatar
GregB

Posts : 369
Join date : 2011-12-09
Age : 40
Location : Findlay, OH

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Swampgater on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:54 pm

Ive been on the recieving end of Morghouls death of millions cuts assasination. 14ish guarenteed damage agianst a knocked down caster is nuts.
avatar
Swampgater

Posts : 299
Join date : 2011-12-02
Age : 32

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Wanderers of the Faith

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum